One Minute Mentoring with Ken Blanchard

Welcome to the Brainfluence Podcast with Roger Dooley, author, speaker and educator on neuromarketing and the psychology of persuasion. Every week, we talk with thought leaders that will help you improve your influence with factual evidence and concrete research. Introducing your host, Roger Dooley.

Roger Dooley:    Welcome to The Brainfluence Podcast. I’m Roger Dooley. We’ve had any number of New York Times bestselling authors as guests here and a few of them count their book sales in the millions. But today’s guest can claim to have co-authored 60 books that have been translated into 40 languages and sold more than 20 million copies.

No, we’re not speaking with Stephen King, Dan Brown, or J.K Rowling today, but don’t tune out just yet. With us today is Ken Blanchard, author of The One Minute Manager, The Servant Leader, Raving Fans, and Gung Ho! His new book, co-authored with Claire Diaz-Ortiz is One Minute Mentoring: How to Find and Work With a Mentor–and Why You’ll Benefit from Being One.

Welcome to the show, Ken.

Ken Blanchard:   Well, good Roger. Great to be with you.

Roger Dooley:    Well Ken, when I was doing my homework for our conversation I found something that isn’t in your media material, but I found really startling. When I looked at your top selling titles at Amazon I wasn’t surprised that the number one seller, at least the way it ranked them for me, was an update of your classic book the one title, the new One Minute Manager. But the second one was Raving Fans, a book about customer service, and that book was published in 1993, that was before e-commerce, before Facebook and Twitter, before the iPhone, and from the Amazon ranking it’s clear this remains a really popular book. Why are people still buying this with so much that has changed in technology and everything else?

Ken Blanchard:   Well, I think Roger, people are realizing that the real competitive difference nowadays is the word of mouth from your customers. If you don’t take care of your customers they’re not gonna take care of you. So I think that topic is really continuing to be an important one that people gotta look at because people are still saying, “I can’t believe the awful service I got,” and they’re also blown away when they go to a store like Nordstrom’s or they’re on Southwest Airlines or Wegmans or whatever where they get great service, they go, “Wow, this is really fabulous.”

Roger Dooley:    Yeah, well I guess certain principals are timeless. I was looking at the third book on the list is another one in the One Minute franchise. The One Minute Manager Meets the Monkey, which is kind of an odd title, but there’s some logic in there if you read the description and that dates back to 1999.

So do you have a secret formula for writing timeless books? Because it seems like most business authors within three years they’re revising it or it just disappears.

Ken Blanchard:   Well, you know my goal in life, Roger, is to get the BS out of the behavioral sciences. So I try to write stuff that makes it come alive and really helps people and I got started in the storytelling philosophy with the parables, and I think people like to lead those because it’s short and quick, but they get into it rather than a bunch of theory. It kind of dis-invites them into the learning.

So like with Bill Oncken and the One Minute Manager Meets the Monkey, it’s such a classic where somebody comes into you and says, “Roger, we have a problem. You need to watch out cause the monkey’s about ready to leap from their back onto yours.” Because you usually know it’s a problem, but you say, “I think I’ll think about it.” And they walk out of there 30 pounds lighter because they just left the monkey with you. So the next day they’re in there saying, “Have you fed my monkey lately?”

So Bill was such a wonderful guy and he was a good Texas boy, it was just fun. But those concepts just have such long life.

Roger Dooley:    Well, even through the technology has changed, human beings haven’t changed very much. That’s what I often make with my stuff, that our brains haven’t changed in 50 thousand years and if you’re dealing with those kinds of issues as opposed to how to use Twitter for success or something, your books have a lot better shelf life.

You mentioned the use of parable and some of your best-selling books have been in that business fable genre or management fiction as some call it, The One Minute Manager is part of that, Who Moved My Cheese, Bob Burg’s The Go-Giver, they’re all told in the form of a fictional story that embeds the lessons of the book and your new book, One Minute Mentoring is also in the same format.

It seems like almost all business books that we see are written directly to the reader as sort of instructional non-fiction. Why have you chosen this particular approach?

Ken Blanchard:   Well, it really happened when I met Spencer Johnson at a cocktail party and Spencer wrote children’s books. I don’t know if you knew he wrote this whole series called ValueTales for kids. The Value of Honesty, The Story of Abe Lincoln, The Value of Determination, The Story of Hellen Keller. So my wife carried them over to me and said, “You guys ought to write a children’s book for managers, they won’t read anything else.”

Roger Dooley:    Was that the origin of Who Moved My Cheese?

Ken Blanchard:   Yeah, he was writing a book with his psychiatrist on a one minute scolding, on disciplining. So I invited him to a seminar I was doing and he laughed and came running up at the end and said, “Forget parenting, let’s do the One Minute Manager,” and since he was a children’s book writer and I’m a storyteller it was really easy because we though our best books we ever read were Johnathon Livingston’s Seagull and the Littlest Prince and Og Mandino was the greatest salesman of them all. So let’s right a parable.

And nobody knew Spencer and I, we were on the Today’s Show Labor Day 1982 and the book went on the best seller list the next week and never left for two or three years. So we just revised it because we hadn’t even looked at it because we didn’t have an ebook and when we reread it we laughed because the One Minute Manager was on his intercom system, and of course nobody has an intercom system anymore. And we changed the One Minute Reprimand to One Minute Redirects because people I think are much more looking at leadership as a side-by-side relationship than they are top down and I just started to write parables and just have enjoyed it so much more.

Roger Dooley:    Why do you think other business authors haven’t taken that approach? Or have they and their books just disappeared and never got any traction?

Ken Blanchard:   Well, Patrick Lencioni is taken on the parable of format. The Five Dysfunctions of a Team and all that and his books are really doing well, so I think you’ll see more people that are starting to try that because it’s just a much wider way to share information in a story format.

Roger Dooley:    Do you ever get pushback from people would prefer a more structured approach? Not that you can argue with selling millions of books.

Ken Blanchard:   No, once in a while and I tell them, “Well, good luck to you. You know, I hope you can find some good, dull book that you can read.”

Roger Dooley:    Right. So let’s talk a little bit about mentoring. Was there something that caused you to move in this direction? These days all you hear about are millennials and people speaking about them as if they’re kind of an alien species. Was there anything to do with that that pushed in this direction or was it anything else?

Ken Blanchard:   The real push was my co-author Claire Diaz-Ortiz. She was one of the first employees at Twitter. She wrote a book called Twitter for Good. She got the pope to tweet and she’s now 35 when we got together first time she was 32 or 33 and she said, “Ken in the past mentors have always been older than you and I think us younger folks could use your wisdom, but you older folks could really use us to help you, particularly around technology.” So the initial thing was this whole concept of cross-generational mentoring.

And I hadn’t thought much about it, but my mother, you’d get a kick out of it Roger, she used to say to me, “Ken, why don’t you write a book by yourself?” I’d say, “Mom, you already know what I know,” and I’ve written 60 books, but only two by myself. One on golf, because so many people helped me with my golf game, didn’t know who to write it with. And one on my spiritual journey. But I looked at so many of those, I was either the mentor, I was helping somebody else bring an idea alive and all that kind of thing, or I was mentored by somebody. Like I wrote a book with Norman Vincent Peale, he was 86 years old when I met him. The Power of Positive Thinking guy and boy did I learn a lot from him.

I also wrote one with Truett Cathy, the founder of Chick-Fil-A, boy he was a wonderful mentor to me. The first time I met Truett he said, “Ken, who do you think needs encouragement?” And I said, “I bet you’re gonna tell me, Truett.” And he said, “Every human being that breathes needs encouragement.” And I’ve never forgotten that.

Then I mentored other people. I had a couple of graduate students Pat and Drea Zigarmi that I brought in to co-author my book, Leadership and the One Minute Manager on situational leadership too, a concept that we had been developing and teaching. Learned a lot from them, too. Drea’s wonderful in terms of research and asking really tough questions. And Pat was great at designing curriculum.

And that’s what I started to think about when Claire said to me that it’s win-win when you’re in a mentoring relationship and they don’t have to all be formal. In fact, one of the reasons why we call it the One Minute Mentoring is the best advice most people have gotten is just a casual conversation or a luncheon and not a formal mentoring relationship.

How about you, Roger? Who have been mentors? Anybody you can think of that you look back that kind of made a difference in your life?

Roger Dooley:    Well, I guess Ken, the one that I would think of is my ex-CEO. I was really, pretty firmly in the corporate world for probably the first maybe 15 years of my career and then saw an opportunity in the early home computer business and even though I was in a really kind of fun position I was director of strategic planning for a Fortune 1000 company and the CEO had been part of bringing me in. I had to get into his office and tell him that I was quitting to start a business of my own. And that was one of the few business moments when I was literally shaking. But despite the fact that I had to let him down by leaving him in that position we did stay in contact and a few years later that first business I had exited and was looking for a new challenge and so I decided, “Oh, hey I’ll give him a call and have lunch.” He was already long gone from that position and had been in a chairman position in another large corporation and was just probably like a board member guy at the point when I spoke to him.

But he related this problem that he had, they were trying to get … The company he was working with then was trying to outsource some of their tech stuff and the people that they were talking to basically were looking only at very huge contract. Six or seven figure contract at an absolute minimum, and they simply didn’t feel they needed to spend that much, but they couldn’t get people to talk to them.

So we talked about and he said, “You should do that!” And I ended up not doing that exact thing, but that did spark an idea and just a week or two later I ran into somebody who was looking at doing IT outsourcing for small businesses. And it was suddenly, this is some strange confluence and so I really relate that conversation I had with him, even though we really didn’t have too much of an ongoing relationship, as being instrumental in what redirected my interests and career direction. It ended up proving to be very successful for me. A couple of evolutionary steps after that, but you can trace it back to that conversation.

So that was I guess, Ken, an example of a brief mentoring relationship, but one that was very significant.

Ken Blanchard:   Yeah, I was fortunate to have a father who retired as an admiral in the Navy, was kind of a mentor to me. I’ll never forget, I won the president of the seventh grade. I lived in New Rochelle, New York, right outside of New York City. I came home all proud and I told my dad and he said, “Congratulations, son. But now that you’re president don’t ever use your position because remember great leaders are great because people trust and respect them. Not because they have power.” And that was the beginning of him really teaching me about leadership and getting my interest in that area.

So I can really look back even to those kinds of things. So it’s really interesting is I talk to people everybody can think of relationships and it’s interesting to raise a question as if you’re really at the point where you’re trying to think about what do you want to do when you grow up or next and all it’s interesting to say is there anybody around to maybe might be good to talk to or think about or if you’re feeling like you’re really feeling successful in terms of what you’re doing and have learned a fair amount you might want to think, “Well, is there anybody I might share it with?” And I think that’s why this is a whole fun concept this mentoring because it’s a two way street, I think, both partners really get something out of it.

One of the things I think, Roger, people need to know is before you get into a mentoring relationship there’s two aspects of it. One is essence and the other is form. In essence it’s heart to heart and values to values and form is “What are you gonna do?” And my friend, Jim Ballard taught me about this. He said, “Ken, be careful about jumping to form right away. Because if you don’t have essence it’ll end up biting you.”

And I remember I had an idea one time of writing a book on the power of positive management. So I went to a guy who was really known for the positive thinking field and all. And all he wanted to talk about was form, “Who’s gonna do what and how are we gonna divide the royalties,” and all this kind of thing. So I decided to pass on it, so that’s when I get a call from our publisher Larry Hughes at William Morrow and he says, “You ever think about writing a book with Norman Vincent Peale?” And I said, “Is he still alive?” He said, “Yeah.” Because my parents had gone to his church before I was born. They said, “No, he’s alive. He’s fabulous.”

So I went to New York and had lunch with Norman and his wife Ruth and our publisher and our literary agent and in a two or three hour lunch there wasn’t one form question I asked. It was all essence. “Tell us about you, let us tell you about us and all.”

In the end Norman turned to Ruth and said, “Ruth, do you think we should write a book with this young man?” We hadn’t even decided what we were gonna write. She said, “Absolutely. Under one condition.” He said, “What’s that?” “From now on he will bring his wife Margie and the four of us will work on this together.” Because he had heard good thing about … So we really had a wonderful essence before we got to form and I think that’s an important thing to check out before you want to get into any kind of formal relationship in mentoring.

Roger Dooley:    Right. I think that’s probably true for any kind of business relationship. I think if you look at business partnerships of any kind they can definitely fail for that reason when people are so focused on maybe the product they want to introduce or the structure of their deal. They haven’t really determined whether they share the same values and goals and life objectives. And then after reality sets in six months later, 12 months later, then you have conflict.

Ken Blanchard:   That’s for sure. And once you decide that this might be a good mentoring relationship then we developed a little acronym. MENTOR, this quick steps to think.

M just stands for mission. What are you trying to accomplish? Both of you, in this relationship.

E stands for engagement, which is how do you want to meet? Do you want to meet for lunch or online or some combination?

N has to do with network. Because you both know people and all and you want to share that with your mentor or mentee.

T is trust which has such an important element in any relationship and how do you build a trusting relationship.

O stands for opportunities because you’re both gonna see opportunities that might be helpful to either one.

And then finally R stands for review and renew because for your first gotta know where you’re headed and you’re not gonna know how well you’ve done unless at some point you build in this renew, review and renew.

So those are little steps that people might want to think about in a mentoring relationship.

Roger Dooley:    You know, it strikes me Ken, that mentoring is potentially a little bit similar to what we hear more about these days and those are called masterminds, which are basically not two people getting together perhaps three or four or five people getting together on a regular basis to do some of the same things that mentor relationships do.

Now, in those cases typically there isn’t that sort of junior/ senior relationship that often, but doesn’t necessarily exist in mentoring, but you have people who are looking to talk through their problems with other smart people who can then give them feedback, criticize, offer suggestions, and also then get help with their own issues.

I think that there’s a human need for that kind of thing and probably even though many of us don’t take the time for that because they go, “Good grief, we’re already so busy that’s why I need another meeting every week or every month,” that process of interacting with one person in a mentor relationship or with multiple people in a mastermind relationship really is very beneficial.

Ken Blanchard:   Yes, and I think that the key questions whether you’re talking about some kind of formal mentoring or informal or having a support group like a mind sharing group is “Are you open to learn?” And I love Norman Vincent Peale where he said, “Ken, if you stop learning you should lie down and let them throw the dirt on you, because you’re already dead.” And here he was at 86 interested in writing a book and we to his 90th birthday party and Ruth got up and said, “I thought the book Ken, that Norman wrote with Ken would be his last, but I went by his office the other day and he had a folder on there, New Book.”

And I think that that’s the whole thing. That the most interesting people in life are people who are constant learners and you shouldn’t retire. You should refire. I wrote a book with that title. But it’s about what are you doing to re-stimulate yourself intellectually, physically, spiritually, emotionally, because you’ve gotta be an interesting person for yourself too, besides somebody else.

Roger Dooley:    You know, I found personally that often just explaining an issue that I’m struggling with to somebody else ends up producing solutions. Just writing an email to somebody, halfway through the email the process of formulating it and writing it out has created solutions for my own mind and you gotta believe that that’s sort of a key part of mentorship that merely putting your concerns, your problems in words for somebody not else only enables you to get feedback from them but it clarifies your own thinking too.

Ken Blanchard:   Absolutely. And the other way a lot of people say, “Well, how do I find a mentor if I wanted one.” Well, I think again it starts in your mind with the intention. I think if you send out energy that you really love to learn from somebody and all and you share that with other people all of a sudden you’re gonna have a bunch of possibilities out coming for you and I think it’s the intention that really begins it.

Roger Dooley:    Now, what percent of companies do you think, and I don’t know if you have any statistics or not, I do know that some companies have sort of formal mentoring programs where they try and pair new hires or more junior employees with more senior ones. How prevalent is that these days?

Ken Blanchard:   I think it’s getting more and more. I don’t know what the percentage is. I think it’s probably still a lot of opportunity. But like I have a 25 year old grandson who just got into the real estate business, with commercial real estate, and when he came in they immediately put him with somebody who was a fairly senior person that they said, “He’s gonna be your mentor because if things work out someday I hope you’ll be in a similar role than he is,” and so boy he’s got this wonderful relationship with this guy, he’s been for a while. And they’ve become good buddies and mentors and to each other, I think.

So I think that’s just so smart and I think, don’t you think Roger, it’s such a waste to boot somebody out at 60, 65 or whatever without saying, “Well, why don’t you kind of hang on maybe part time and all and mentor some of the younger people in the company,” and I there’s getting to be more of that kind of thing happening in organizations too where they’re utilizing the wisdom of senior people to kind of mentor younger people and then those younger people help those seniors particularly around technology so they can enjoy any kind of retirement they have more.

Roger Dooley:    Yeah, with these corporate sets ups is there’s some danger of mismatches if there any HR person doing the matching. I know in your book, Josh, the fictional junior person, goes through a few potential mentors before he finds Dan that ends up being a great fit from sort of an emotional standpoint and a connections stand point. Is there some danger that just … Perhaps not randomly, but paring somebody up isn’t gonna work out, but then there’s this feeling that, “Oh gee, well this person’s a VP, I can’t very well say that I just really don’t have anything in common with him or her.”

Ken Blanchard:   Well, I think that’s why the HR person is doing that, to say to the young person, “Here’s somebody I think might be a good match for you all, but together why don’t you meet and then decide if that is a good match for you.” In other words, not so to say, “This is your person, you know, and you’re stuck with them,” because personalities are different and I think it’s really important that essence aspect may come in before you get the form going.

Roger Dooley:    Yeah, I think one that you emphasize in the book, Ken, is that even though we think of mentoring as a junior person and a senior person paring up usually in the same field, so perhaps a junior person in sales might pair up with somebody who spent many years in that part of the business. Really that isn’t necessarily the only kind or even the best kind of mentoring relationship. You could have peer mentoring relationships, you can have people inside the company, people outside the company, and in fact in your book the relationship is two people from different companies which produce some more interesting results perhaps than somebody who’s merely in a higher level in the same company.

Ken Blanchard:   Yes, I think it’s just a lot of different opportunities. We have a wonderful one with our company from adult to kind of teenager. We’ve got a relationship with 20, I think 22 of our women in our company are big sisters who a younger person with a Big Brother, Big Sister program, they came and said, “Would you be willing to try this experiment?” And I want to tell you what a powerful think not only for the young people, but all of the women who have kind of mentees through this are just thrilled with it and are learning so much from their relationship. It’s just great.

My literary agent has a gal that she’s now been with for over 2 years and every time she goes to pick her up to do something her mother comes out and cries and hugs her because what a difference she’s at. And she says, “I’m getting so much out of this myself.” Those are the kind of thing where people are open to learn.

Roger Dooley:    Right, well while we’re on the topic of mentors getting something out of it you mentioned in the book that managers who are mentors get promoted six times as often as those who aren’t. And do you think that mentoring really helps their careers or are they selected as mentors because they’re recognizes as being the upper range of being good role models and being effective senior people?

Ken Blanchard:   Well, I think it’s because they, again they’re people who are interested in learning and teaching and they’re vital and those are the people who end up moving up the hierarchy, not people who are stuck in the mud and think that they’ve already learned everything they need to learn. So I just think it’s a wonderful opportunity for you to learn and broaden your own perspective as you become more valuable to your company.

Roger Dooley:    You know, I looked for a citation and I couldn’t find it before our chat. But I recall reading a while back that some psychologist was positing that when people reach a certain age, I forget if he said men or if it was just people, but reach a certain age some sort of a mentor gene kicks in and they feel this need to sort of pass along their knowledge to the next generation.

I guess from an evolutionary standpoint that makes sense, but I have no idea if there’s any backup for that theory or not. What do you think? Have you observed anything like that or have you read about that?

Ken Blanchard:   I think it really is interesting. You know, I’m 78 and you start thinking about legacy planning. What can you leave behind? Because people say, “How many of you would like to have your net worth on your tombstone?” You’d like to have something that maybe you made a difference in the world and maybe help some human beings. I think that when all is said and done, when you die the only thing you’re gonna be remembered for is your relationships with people and I think that people started thinking about that, “How can I pass that on?”

So my wife and I we laugh because have said, “It’s too bad you didn’t have grandchildren’s first.”

Roger Dooley:    Right.

Ken Blanchard:   Because they’re really so much fun because you can also send them home, but I have three. They are 20 and one 18 and one 11. It’s just really fun to be spending time and having a different relationship with each of them in a way that we can kind of maybe be known as having an impact on them. I’d love to know that when I’m gone they’re gonna say, “Oh Gramps, he was a pretty good guy. You know, I learned this or that,” so I think at certain times in life when you start saying, “Hmm, I’ve learned a few things. I wonder how I could pass a few things along.”

Roger Dooley:    Right, I think there’s a tendency once you reach that point where you realize that you’ve probably lived more years than you will have to live in the future then that sort of thinking starts to kick in. Like, “Okay, what else do I want to accomplish and of course how can I create some kind of a legacy.

Ken, many of our listeners aren’t part of big organizations. They may be entrepreneurs either working alone or with a small team. What are some steps, if you were advising somebody in that situation where they don’t necessarily have a in company network to work with who wants a mentoring relationship? Where would somebody like that start, do you think?

Ken Blanchard:   Well, you know, there’s several ones if you have enough people that you can apply to be a member of the Young President’s Organization. You have to become president before you’re 40 years old. It’s a wonderful network group. There’s another group that used to be called Tech and I’m trying to remember where they are now, where they get groups of entrepreneurs together, just like you were talking about earlier, they meet once a month or every six weeks and so it’s really getting part of a group of people who are maybe going through entrepreneur experiences too from different organizations that you can learn for if you don’t feel you have enough size in your own present organization. Reach out to people.

Boy, I have never met … We were college professors and we went to California on a sabbatical leave and got invited to do some sessions for the Young President’s organization and they said, “What are you gonna do at the end of the year?” And we said, “We’re going back to university,” and they said, “No you’re not. When you’re hot you’re hot. You should start your own company,” and we said, “We don’t even know how to balance our checkbook, how are we gonna do that?” And they said, “We’ll help you.”

Five entrepreneurial presidents from the Young Presidents volunteered to be our advisory board, helped Margie and I set our company up, we’re now 38 years old and it’s an organization got over 300 people working with us and it would have never happened, I think, if it wasn’t for … I think people who are entrepreneurs love that part of this country and are annoyed that we don’t get a better rap in the press, you know. Because this country was built on entrepreneurs and people who are willing to take a risk and start a business and create jobs and all that.

We talk about getting more jobs, well let’s not beat on business. Why don’t we promote business?

Roger Dooley:    Yeah, Ken, coincidentally the mentor that I mentioned had his YPO rocking chair sitting in his office while he was CEO because, as I’m sure you know our listeners may not, once you hit a certain age in the Young President’s Organization you retire from there and they give you a rocking chair.

Ken Blanchard:   That’s right, yeah. Well, I think they have a next level that you can go to or something. Yeah, you get booted out of there and that’s kind of traumatic for some people, but it’s so much fun to be part of those. My wife, Margie, she was president when we started because she’s much better at that kind of thing. I’m a cheerleader. She got into the tech room, was with about 10, 11 presidents once every four or six weeks, facilitated by a moderator. It was just really powerful of her and then her brother took over president he became a member of the same kind of group.

Roger Dooley:    Ken, these days if you name a problem somebody will immediately tell you, “Oh, there’s an app for that.” I did a little searching online and found different kinds of mentor matching software, but these were perhaps to implement in your own organization or group. Are there any web based resources that make mentorship connections? Is there a Match.com or a Tinder app for mentor or mentee wannabees?

Ken Blanchard:   You know, I should know that but Claire would know that.

Roger Dooley:    I haven’t run across one, obviously. Maybe there’s a business opportunity there, because I could see where in the same way there’s for instance, for angel investors. Now there’s Angel List, which is sort of a formal networking program for people who either looking for angel funding or provide angel funding. Maybe there’s an opportunity there for mentorship.

Ken Blanchard:   We could start that, Mentor Match. You know, that would be interesting. I’m gonna ask Claire because she knows all about the social media stuff, but I think that would be an interesting thing.

Roger Dooley:    Right, well maybe this will be a profitable discussion for all of us.

Anyways, let me remind out listeners that we’ve been speaking with Ken Blanchard, author of the One Minute Mentoring and 60 other books. Ken, how can people connect with online?

Ken Blanchard:   Well, I have a new line now called kenblanchardbooks.com, which they can go to where they can really find out about this book and all the other books and then kenblanchard.com is the other website that they could go on for our company, but kenblanchardbooks.com is an interesting new one that you can just kind of find out and I’ve had more fun … People say to me, “When are you gonna retire?” I said, “I’m having too much fun, why would I stop?” And so I’m just finishing a book on servant leadership and action. So I’m excited about that as the next chapter.

I’m also talking about a book you’ll get a kick out of called, Duh! Why isn’t Common Sense Common Practice, I’m always amazed that so many common sense stuff that the people who practice it beat the competition. I don’t know why other people don’t.

Roger Dooley:    Interesting. Well, it’s great and I can’t wait for your new titles to come out, Ken. But we will link to both of those websites as well as your new book and at least a few of your past titles and any other resources we talked about on the show notes page at rogerdooley.com/podcast and we’ll have a text version of our discussion there too so that our listeners who want to read can read it either on page or grab it as a PDF to read later or share with their friends.

Ken, it’s been a great pleasure. Thanks for being on the show.

Ken Blanchard:   Well, thank you Roger. This was a joy. Take care of yourself and everybody in Austin.

Thank you for joining me for this episode of the Brainfluence Podcast. To continue the discussion and to find your own path to brainy success, please visit us at RogerDooley.com.